Are you a "The Open Directory Project" site editor? 1.4.25

What kind of weather do you prefer? 1.5.01

Rumors are circulating that Bill Gates will run for President of the United States
in 2004. Would you vote for him?

Who is more sick and twisted?

What do you believe the most? God or Science? 1.05.05

Do you think you will go to Heaven when you die? 1.5.05

Are you a "The Open Directory Project" site editor? 1.4.25

Kristal_Rose
I tried to become one, but realised that the primary sites I'd recommend were already listed. To my grumblement, the current editor of the section I wanted to be editor of never did list my site. I've got hundreds of catalogued bookmarks, but they are arranged in a fashion that would make more sense to a metaphysician. I think I did apply anyhow, but never got a response. I don't recall now. A lot of the stuff I would really want to include wouldn't even make sense to a non-mystical mind, and the concrete cataloguing system is not as open as they'd have you think. If someone has experienced differently, please let me know.

jkiehart
Huh? I don't understand.

Kristal_Rose
http://www.ereiam.com/office/bookmark-010327.htm
This is where I keep my own version, and 'coincidentally' it seems that all my ODP links are at the top. You can also go to the top level and to my links page where surprise surprise SC is one of the first links listed. Even my favorite dialogues with users are there (about a Mb worth). In fact, even my office files like my project calendar are listed there. Eventually I plan to post all my economic data too when I start auctioning viewmaster reels on eBay. I'm developing software to even the playing field amongst people and bidding agents on ebay and start a new business model of cost and expense reporting as well for people who choose their expenditures based on more than who's least expensive.
If anyone knows of any good free software for managing bookmark pages in html in frontpage let me know. Netscape just spits out a single page for all of them, and I have several layers deep of folders.

Violet
Nope, but I'm an editor for one of its competitors.

Kristal_Rose replies to jkiehart 
The ODP is like the Dewey Decimal or Library of Congress classifications you find at the library, but it's for web sites, and is organized a bit more by the way people use web sites, and not by some theoretical classification of information. Often when you go to a search engine and find things by category you already are using the results of the ODP. Search engines used to be totally automated; you'd throm in some searh word like 'survey', and your search would turn up all the sites in which the authors of the site listed the keyword 'survey'. For instance, Survey Central appear would appear. The problem with that system now is that hundreds of sites might appear; some of them might even be résumés for people who worked gathering surveys in shopping malls.
Now, with ODP, one could click on the category 'people', click on 'opinions', click on 'surveys', click on 'survey chat sites' and be presented with a list of all the survey chat websites, no résumés from survey takers or articles about the origin of gallup polls. This is accurate, because instead of artificial intelligence comparing keywords to the authors site content, an actual human editor was submitted site links from all the authors who felt they had 'survey chat site' and s/he determined whethar that really appeared to be the case or not. Anyone is free to become an editor. They all volunteer. If you felt you were an expert on nail polish, you could apply to be be the "society | home & health care | cosmetology | nail care" by filling an application with some nail care links you would recommend to prove that you can indeed find, identify, and verify legitimate nail care sites. I myself was going an editor of "Science and Mysticism". The problem with the system is that an individual has veto power over who gets listed. A christian editor of nail care listings might ignore requests to list the website of 'Uncle Beelzebub's tattoo and nail parlor'.
Was it worth my trouble to explain this?

Kristal_Rose replies to Violet 
Cool !!! Who?

HareKrishna replies to Kristal_Rose
I had a look @ http://www.ereiam.com/office/bookmark-010327.htm Why don't you submit it to many search engines @ once with Submit Express http://www.submitexpres.com ?

HareKrishna replies to Violet
Cool !!! Who??

kaleb777
don't know, don't care 

Kristal_Rose replies to HareKrishna
Funny, the site wasn't available. I've already submitted my sites to the search engines that supply the source for the others. If they don't list me, I won't hassle. It was a tool for managing bookmarks I sought. It shows up on my search engine, I haven't tested searches elsewhere for awhile.

 joalis
I always have a hard time finding the less simple stuff on the web. I can't think of anything offhand, but I should start writing it down. It's frustrating. It's so easy to find everyday topics, but when you have something a bit more hard to explain, it's also hard to find. Maybe this Open Directory thing would help. Maybe I'm just weird.

HareKrishna replies to Kristal_Rose
You have your own search engine?

Kristal_Rose replies to HareKrishna
In different manners of speaking, yes. I use a search site run by the folks who wrote the other popular search engine sites, it's used by the department of defense, and doesn't filter/sort your results based on what they think you should know or buy.

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis
Give me a shot at something. I find whatever I'm looking for. Really good search software is capable of, for instance, telling you when any site out there has edited it's content to use your brand name in a derogatory fashion. I don't have that software. It sells for between $30k & $280k, though for around $80 you can get something that will at least search any domain you point it at for whatever you're looking for, or revisions to prior content. Karma has much to do with it too.

joalis replies to Kristal_Rose
OK, How about different accounts of bystander intervention. I want to see if there are any articles about the dynamics of it, especially interventions gone awry. (The good samaritan helps the wrong person, accidentally lets the bad guy catch the good guy etc)

HareKrishna replies to Kristal_Rose
What is its URL?

Kristal_Rose replies to HareKrishna
http://www.queryserver.com/web.htm One nice thing about is is that some sites keep track of where you came from, what last page you visited, which browser, etc. and mold content for you based on that. Sometimes I have to choose a different method of arriving at a site to get the content I want. Concepts like Communities, Zones, VChips, etc, though making some stuff like hobbies and shopping easier to reach, might cut you off from knowing what the rest of the world's really up to. One gets suspicious when for instance a company takes over 1200 radio stations, and out of hundreds of websites about it, the only one with a title that suggests disfavor is from grenada and crashes when you try to load it.

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis
Using my search site
http://www.queryserver.com/web.htm
I get 235 sites off the bat using "bystander intervention", most of them from psychology departments, but about half are irrelevant sites on CPR & such. I've in fact visited some of them before on topics like 'Diffusion of responsibility'. Let me add the term 'mistake'.. Gee, even if I type in awry, I get 211 sites like chat boards on car alarm flame throwers. Talk about your remote control fire bomb. The flames seem to be perfectly designed to ignite an adjacent gas cars gas tank. Why you could push a switch and ignite all of S. Africa. Bad stuff. In the case of your search, I suppose I would have to throw in all the 'not military' 'not CPR' 'awry or mistake or wrong' and 'samaritan or bystander' etc etc otherwise the first few hundred sites of cut off I get will be mixed with so much irrelevant stuff to dig through. I don't see a shortage of material though, rather too much. Were any of those papers on the subject yours? Ok, well I'm not actually finding much. But it might not be a search engine issue. Perhaps such things are rarely documented in the first place. You might see if any newspapers have search engines for their archives. This content wouldn't appear in indexed search engines because the web page doesn't even exist except when you make a request to their database to draft such a page. First do a search on 'Newspaper Database Search' to find your starting point. Likewise, searching on words like 'Spider, agent, search, parse, html' will find you dozens of software applications to expedite your search. I've rarely needed them myself. Mostly they're for sites that aren't accurately indexed. Was there something more personal intended intended? My search turned up articles on hinduism and such too.

joalis
I think that most of the stuff that interests me is rarely documented. I'm kinda different that way.

Maarten replies to joalis
Example? joalis replies to Maarten  Like: The concept of harmless people being completely themselves, without being self-conscious of being judged, and the idea that you shouldn't judge people that are playing in their own world. I'm interested in shunning the social norms and expectations that really don't matter. I have this idea that I like to call 'anythinging' where you just let yourself be relaxed in an 'anything goes' kind of style. It is so hard to explain, I highly doubt I can find the words to find anything like it in a search engine. (Have you seen the way that hippies dance?)

Maarten replies to joalis
Come 'anythinging' in Amsterdam. You'd feel much better! joalis replies to Maarten  Why, are people much more open-minded, non-judgmental, understanding, accepting, empathetic, logical, and reasonable there? 

Maarten replies to joalis
Absolutely. joalis replies to Maarten  Cool. One of my favorite IRC buddies was from there, and I've heard good things about it. I have a list of places I want to go. Maybe I should put it on my list?

Maarten replies to joalis
Sure. All foreigners I meet love it here!

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis
People often recommend Amsterdam to me. You are picking on me.

joalis replies to Kristal_Rose
I'm picking on you? I don't mean to.

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis
I do try to get people out of their little worlds, or at least understand them. joalis replies to Kristal_Rose  joalis replies to Kristal_Rose  I never answered your earlier questions. None of the articles on bystander intervention were mine. There was nothing more personal intended either. I just happen to hate it when people jump into situations without knowing who the 'bad guy' is, or not know if there even is a bad guy... recipe for disaster. 

HareKrishna replies to Kristal_Rose
http://www.queryserver.com/web.htm is interesting, but I prefer http://google.com/
Hare Krishna!

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis
I took CPR and first aid back in the 6th grade. now they teach people that they risk a lawsuit from doing something wrong.

Kristal_Rose replies to HareKrishna
Those categories at the top of Google are the ODP listings. joalis replies to Kristal_Rose  Oh I know. I've taken it a few times. I wonder if you could also sue a person for thinking you were the bad guy and stopping you from chasing someone who just stole from your store or vandalized your car. joalis replies to Maarten  If I ever make my way to Amsterdam and decide to go anythinging, I'll have to look you up. Maarten replies to joalis  Absolutely. I love anythinging!

HareKrishna replies to Kristal_Rose 
Yes they are. Hare Krishna!

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis 1.5.02 Obstruction of justice during a citizens arrest. Yes I suppose so. You certainly have one of the quirkier interests going here. I can't quite see where you're going with this. Are you hoping to further instigate the MYOB culture, wake up misguided zealots, or do you just have a personal fascination with screwy karma. I think to get an accurate picture, you would have to look at the character profiles of the parties involved, and at least the immediate periphery karma of their lives. If for instance, the motive of a misguided was heroic fame instead of compassion, I can easily see them landing blooper publicity. So what are your motives here? College can be a really great place to start positive forces in motion, or it can be a place to seek, expose, and amplify a lack of faith in human nature. 20 years ago I thought a magazine called 'wipe out', full of sports tragedies would be a great seller, though those around me couldn't envision it becoming popular. Now to my dismay, such has become mainstream television entertainment. I imagine I was part of a collective fascination that hasn't served society.

joalis replies to Kristal_Rose
Want to hear two coincidences? I was looking for writer's resources on the web, and
someone's example sounded eerily similar to one of my stories. Also, I was thinking of
making a fake crime book, with staged photos, and was wondering about them being so
realistic as to attract the suspicion of the lab employees. Today I went to vote.com and saw a
question about that. Weird.

joalis 
Heres another coincidence: Last night I was thinking of making a certain game out of wood. It would
take a piece of wood with holes in it, one square in the middle. Today I was walking outside and
found a piece of wood on the ground with a hole right in the middle. See... You notice coincidences
more when you have been thinking about them. 

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis 1.5.11
My life is nothing but that sort of coincidence. Whatever I think of happens. It's not as intense as it was years ago before I mellowed out. then I could compose poetry and hear it over the radio as I thought it. I think of new technology, new arts, new social movements.. I hear it all on the news within a couple days or weeks. I can use the world as a means of carrying on a conversation at times (I learned it from others that do the same). There was a time I was even going to answer all my surveys by what I heard over the radio at the moment (Haven't been at that speed this year except on Easter)
Someone was complaining about the attitude of my website, www.ereiam.com. It turns out that they had visited a dark mirror of the same site from the other side of the planet that I had been unaware of at www.eriam.com {I still don't know if it was a copy-cat, or, as I suspect, a spontaneous parallel}.
Synchronicity and coincidence are a variant of instant karma. Choose what you want to think about carefully. It's the means by which you pilot yourself to new realms of subject matter or consciousness. I let your line of thinking influence me briefly, and I can't say I welcomed the sort of news stories that came my way. (I since woke up again lately and realised I was doing much worse. I had let my neighbor become a terrible demon, and am still working on undoing the thought. to my personal relief, but sorrow for the kids, she was evicted (a day after my prayers to have her overtaken with a heavenly consciousness bore little fruit). (She confronted me directly about it. )) She has this bizarre capability of turning words of biblical and child psychology wisdom into some hellish interpretation. (apparently [cringe] she even has a degree) The only phrase she didn't subvert was when I said "yeah, but what about 'the golden' rule"? She said that didn't apply to children.

Kristal_Rose replies to joalis 1.5.11
I was thinking last tonight and today to work on various wood projects, including my hollow stave, making a guitar, and paintings on driftwood, and building a cabinet. And thinking again about that sex change I'd like. Many other topics too of course. Oh, and the victrola i'd like to make with the huge piece of redwood burl that sits in front of me behind my monitor.

http://www.ereiam.com/images/website/icons/license.jpg

http://www.ereiam.com/images/album/lean.jpg

What kind of weather do you prefer? 1.5.01

Kristal_Rose 1.5.02
80's to 90's with rainbow mists, or stormy (dry or walls of water) with lightening filling the skies. A nice fog at a driftwood beach with crashing waves, or after the rain in a neon reflecting city are nice too.
Auroras, sundogs, and other prismatic (natural) weathar (could do without haarp).
High energy weathar, whatever the variety. I could do without oobleck too.

SueBee replies to kaleb777 
How funny! As I was reading your comment about the melting cassette there was a TV commercial
on in the background touting the benefits of plastic!

kaleb777 replies to SueBee 
I think you should talk to Kristal rose about that! That is the kind of thing she likes. Actually, TV
reminded me about my cassette melting. There was a item on A Current Affair about people leaving
their kids locked in cars while they gamble at casinos or pubs.

Kristal_Rose replies to SueBee 
"SueBee replies to SueBee" Well, that's one thing you can do with it. You can get advice from god,
you can talk with yourself to clarify things, you can get details on what is going on at the moment
with other distant people, or even zero in on other times and cultures, get lessons on mysticism,
listen to the thoughts of those around you, listen to voices that will deceive you as being the
authority of the logos, and you can throw your voice. When you get good at it you can accent your
conversations with tremendous sound effects from neighbors and weathar and such. I'm finding
direct knowledge and telepathy work as well if not better, but those above are how I started.

Kristal_Rose replies to kaleb777 
Thank you, that is my basic specialty here, isn't it.

Rumors are circulating that Bill Gates will run for President of the United States
in 2004. Would you vote for him?

Kristal_Rose 
No.
But there are no such rumors. (a few tidbits that also suggested he was planning to run in 2000
back in 1995). The man is too smart for that, and has more power than president already anyhow.
He has demonstrated neither a desire for a life of publicity, nor any propensity for public service.
Kristal_Rose replies to BrianW 
Really? How much? Express it in terms of percent of net worth and compare it to yourself.
(remember he makes over a million dollars an hour.)
candel_light 
yes, i would vote for Mr.Gates because he brought some new changes into people's lives.He is
intelligent man, someone like him, american society needs.

BrianW replies to Kristal_Rose 
Well, schools in Denver here recently received over 10 millions dollars worth of new computers,
which schools need nowadya. And according to what Ive heard he does that for poor shcool districts
all over the U.S.

Kristal_Rose replies to BrianW 
Umm, 10 hours for Denver.
AutoCad used to be a $3000 product but they gave it away free to college computer labs. Guess
what product budding young engineers knew how to use when they joined a firm?

I won't compare Hitler to Gates, but Hitler was an intelligent man who brought changes. Could you be a bit more specific?

The clinton-gates administration could be compared to Teddy Roosevelt's. Back then, controlling world commerce was achievable by building and controlling canals like Panama. Power in this age is measured in Consumer Attention (again, rather 1984ish). Converting DARPA's info network to Network Television was a natural step (are people forgetting the MS in NBCi (click on anything to learn to learn what bill has to tell you)). Thanks to gates, any person can buy 24 hour surveillance of someones doorstep. Remember when your 386 had a 40mb hard drive? You could buy a 60gb ram card if you were at the right show (I actually needed exactly that for some material sculpting software I was designing at the time). Why, with that sort of computing power you could synchronize computer monitors to create tesla manifestations of programmatic auroras that blast missles into another dimension, of course your computer would have to have some gps data. [Search: *gps*.*] Oh, it does, I wonder what thats for?

I'm not calling gates good or bad, I'm just saying he has a lot more power than people realise.
At the minimum though, as you use your gate-way computer to contact all the knowledge and people you used get through books and letters over internet providers using microsoft servers capable of understanding anything short of poetry, on machines with OS's & browsers paid to MS, consider what the name Bill Gates means. BG's income comes to about $10 per global citizen, $100 per US citizen, or $1000 per California citizen. He manages to do everything I would I do in his shoes if I were ruthless, lets see, have someone pay you to write your own product, offer it to every manufacturer cheapest provided they install it on every machine they sell. And then eventually, what will only continue to gain value more than minerals, and yield a constant profit along the way without ever depleting, ah yes, time to buy the great artworks and license duplication. Unquestionably, the man has brought us much capability, but he does have his hooks in almost every aspect of our lives. When I wrote internet flight reservation processing software, I cold shut down the system with a few words from any browser (something about visnu or kali, I seem to recollect). Imagine what gates could do with this planet. A bit more than putting a glow-in-the-dark wristwatch in the particular box of cereal you're likely to buy.

However, whether he be good or bad, there are much higher forces in control of this planet than he.

Who is more sick and twisted?
On April 19, 1995, in Oklahoma City, OK, USA, the Murrah Federal Building was destroyed by a massive bomb
planted in a truck parked outside the building. 168 people, including a number of children, were killed.
Timothy McVeigh has been charged with the bombing and has admitted to it. He was convicted and is set to
be executed on May 16. Many family members of the victims are being allowed to watch McVeigh's execution
on closed circuit television. Many other people would like to view his execution over the internet or on
pay-per-view television.

Kristal_Rose 
They're all pretty disturbed. They're both doing similar things for similar motives, for that matter.
Actually I question the motives of the viewers more, even if McVeigh was a bit of a sociopath. The
audience at least should know better.
This is like hate-time in '1984' or feeding christians to lions at the arenas. There was a time a few
years back when I was telepathically plugged into these executions, which i would then find out
about on the news. I think all the crowd media amplified the telepathic broadcast. I want no truc
with such affairs. Millenia keep passing, but the human condition never improves.

kaleb777 
The guy that killed the 168 people of course. The others are only watching.

Kristal_Rose replies to kaleb777 
As I see it. Most of those those who would watch such a thing would also vote for it to exist, and
therefore share in the responsibility of murdering a criminal. That's not closure, that's propogting
the concept that murder is justified in some circumstances, just as McVeigh felt. It is people who
can take a scowl and return a smile who understand 'the buck stops here' responsibility, kinda like
that JC dude. Otherwise, were just going to keep on prolonging this murder thing for eternity. Even
if we become nebula, we'll be sending some other nebula to a black hole because they burst
someone in the head.

kaleb777 replies to Kristal_Rose 
However, that same logic could be applied to a person who keeps a person prisoner in a basement of
a house for 5 years. Isn't locking up the person that deprived someone of their liberty doing the
same thing to them, and saying that deprivation of liberty is justified in some circumstances? What
should we do, let all the criminals roam free because we're better than them?

Kristal_Rose replies to kaleb777 
That's how they used to do it. If you can't contribute to our village in a civil manner, you are banished, hit the road. However a person could make it on their own, and there were places to banish a person too. Also, people didn't really have any privacy then, so they didn't have much of a chance to cause too much damage before discovery. A person did have a chance to make a fresh start. Society took a turn for the worse when the wall was invented, particulary those surrounding villages. That was the start of deforestation and escalation of wars.

kaleb777 replies to Kristal_Rose
What about the theory that some prisoners are jailed to protect them from a public
seeking revenge? I can see some circumstances where a person would be better off
dead that to have to endure exclusion and hatred for the rest of their lives.

Kristal_Rose replies to kaleb777 
People change. Their entire dharma can change chapters overnight. I don't automatically presume a person is the same person I met the day before, though obviously there are strong tendencies. My girlfriend and I have both overwritten each others consciousness. It's like being in a trance state and suddenly realising "Hey, you put all those words in my mouth. I wasn't even there at the time." I told her that I was dismayed that my brother (when talking on the phone) seems to have forgotten all the mystical experiences we shared, like asking the TV questions, and having it answer. She pointed out that they were never his natural consciousness; That I had unwittingly imbued him with some of mine. I suppose that was a bit off topic, and doesn't really serve to explain all the twists consciousness can take. My neighbor trains her grand-kids to be demons. On the physical plane she does nothing illegal, though I once turned them in to family services for neglect. But the attitude she fosters would be ideal for grim reapers (which is something she almost admits to (soul collecting she calls it)). I spent three months living with a murderer (shot a coke baron who screwed him for $60k and was released in 2 years) out in the woods. He was a wood carving artisan and holocaust survivor, and taught me some saintly stuff (about consciousness possibilities and new flavors of love life attitudes), though he took me and all the neighbors for all we had (I'd loaned him my ATM card and password (I was already down to only $200 anyhow)). It was worth it for all the lessons he provided. Anyhow, I'd much rather see people like him around than that neighbor of mine. He had the most awful karma. I'd perform miracles constantly, like find a replacement tire buried in a forgotten barn, then he'd have the other trailer tire go flat a mile up the road. One of many lessons there was you can't change others karma.

What do you believe the most? God or Science? 1.05.05

Kristal_Rose 
Science is only a subset of God. It's rules can be broken then explained by new physics theories.
Some new age religions don't really even seperate the two.
I believe we are writing our own history' as well as the present and future; We have rocks
discovered in 1972 that have had DNA & proteins for billions of years. I say that 40 years ago
Earth did not have that history. On the other hand, matter has always had consciousness. Science
trying to merge our consciousness with this is only a retro movement to unite spirit and science that
separated a few millenia ago. Mind is matter.

phoebe01 
Science, because most things in science can be proved. But I believe in both almost equally. 

Kristal_Rose replies to phoebe01 
But god can be proved to the same extent that reality can be proved. Science can only be proved
when reality is assumed.

phoebe01 replies to Kristal_Rose 
If we didn't have science, we wouldn't be able to analyze God or reality. 

Kristal_Rose replies to phoebe01 
When your fully immersed in God, you still can't anyhow. You have to spit out that fruit of
knowledge to merge back into the garden. A person can look in the mirror, the mirror can not.

phoebe01 replies to Kristal_Rose 
I'm sorry, but we have different opinions on this. Please keep in mind that there are many different
points of view on this matter.

Kristal_Rose replies to phoebe01
Cool. I have experienced quite a few myself. Do you mind telling me which model of reality and communication you inhabit?
Most models I know of can be categorized by how great the distinction between creator and perceiver are. If you remain solely an individual and perceiver, seeing the manifestations of god in weathar, events, or even direct conversations through external channelling or a voice speaking to you in your head, then you are still free to have opinions and make analyses; in some other states though, their is simply no need for analysis, without thought, you know what is being created. On yet another aside, just as it is possible to go out of body travelling in your editor consciousness, it is also possible to leave that editor, and observe that that chatter box which seemed to be making the decisions even as one enters higher dimensions, was really only along for the ride. Me, I mostly like to pretend I'm in creation and only talk to god. To paraphrase someone elses here comments about me, I have a childish disneyland view of god. I'd like everyone else to be able to experience it before I move on. and of course, I'm enjoying it.
So again, where are you at?

phoebe01 replies to Kristal_Rose
I've given a lot of thought to this.
I don't perceive God as someone or something that controls everything. I believe in
"Him", or a higher being, because it would be insipid for a mere creature like a human
being to deny it. Science is simply a realm closer to me, and God hasn't exactly written
a textbook or two for me to study. 

Kristal_Rose replies to phoebe01 
If you're fond of nuclear physics and quantum mechanics and such, perhaps you should work on a couple of nice ancient texts (with modern commentaries). I recommend 'Spanda Karikas' by Jaideva Singh and 'Sefer Yetzirah, the book of creation in theory and practice' by Aryeh Kaplan. They were both taught in the oral tradition and pictographs (like the caballistic tree of life or the hebrew alphabet) until the 7th century.

I just watched a show on PBS last night in which the university physicists Wolf, Trefil, Benford, Searle, Chalmers, & others discussing the correllation between high physics, consciousness, & mysticism. It was actually disappointing how little they understood the works of Einstein, Heisenburg, & Hawkings or various metaphysicians. They conceded that all exist and current models of reality are obsolete. They missed the similarity between the particle-wave-observer-phenomenon and the Spanda Karikas, and the relationship between the theory of relativity and the tree of life.
If you really want some high science, read 'a treatise on cosmic fire' by Alice Bailey. It's way over complicated, confused, systemized and clearly needs rewritten for this century in a streamlined fashion, but it does cover practical material others miss on subjects like spectral energy manipulation. Crowleys works demonstrate a lot of knowledge if you can enter a mystic state to interpret it, but I'd stay away from it. It's like learning diplomacy from Hitler. If you're interested in that you should directly study the works of King Solomon.
You realize you have opened yourself to Christians asking you to study the bible which isn't a bad idea either.
Once you see god in your life, you'll feel as silly about not noticing it as you would if you hadn't noticed air or gravity before.

micah 
I'm god, and I'm studying the sciences in preparation for the next big bang. Don't worry people,
I'll get it right next time.

Kristal_Rose replies to micah
It's a topic worthy of serious contemplation, it's not the science part I would concentrate on though, rather all the aspects of consciousness like perception, viewpoint, heart, good & evil, seperation & unification, karma, freedom of choice, omniscience & omnipotence, microcosms & macrocosms, synchronicity, counterbalance, evolution of thought-matter, mind, soul, observor, transmigration, transubstantiation, genetic memories, parallell dimensions, direction of time and memory.. 'What qualities are to be experienced how by whom' is pretty much the essence of the question.
It really doesn't matter whethar we see gamma rays, or our current spectrum, or for that matter whethar we can see all points in time space at once, or just the spouse we are kissing.
Tell me when you come up with something.

Sparky replies to ASexyBabe 
No one talked to me as Oscar...so I tried Sparky
Kristal_Rose replies to Oscar 
Didn't make much difference did it? Pick a handle that best represents how you'd want to interact
with people here. I'd recommend your own name, if freinds are what you want.

Twistermime replies to Oscar 
That should have been a hint. Changing your handle without changing the abrasive and hateful nature
of your comments isn't going to make people talk to you any more than they did before. 
Kristal_Rose replies to Twistermime 
Amplify the positive.
Twistermime replies to Kristal_Rose 
I'm trying. Unfortunately I have a little devil on my shoulder.....and his voice seems to come through
loudest
Kristal_Rose replies to Twistermime 
Well, you know a bit more about steering the ship now, and where it can take you. You're probably
wanting to take back the life you left behind simply for the comfort of familiarity. Take back the
parts you can embrace that work towards your goals. Not the whole package. If you're talking
about the existential one, follow your heart. You can be a devout wide open mind, a prisoner, a lonely
tyrant of all you survey, a humble servant, a saint, angel, or saviour. It's up to you. I think you know
you can never go back, in case you were considering it. You will never again be able to pretend it was
all just it's surface, though some compromises of that nature can be helpful.
Twistermime replies to Kristal_Rose 
Yes, just as I attempt to turn things around then the world screams my intentions back at me to
reinforce my choice. My daughter takes me by the hand for a walk saying she wants to get fit,
knowing full well it is good for me. It's all good.
Kristal_Rose replies to Twistermime 
:-)
micah replies to Kristal_Rose 
Come up with something? You mean like what would be most beneficial to the soul by experiencing?
Or what I think God should focus on in the next bang? (similar, but still very different)
Kristal_Rose replies to micah 
I was asking both separately and simultaneously, the latter, a bit more tongue and cheek, and yet
still with the seriousness of the former. The microcosm mirrors the macrocosm. When you master
the microcosm (which you can sustain indefinitely if you you want, there's only the macrocosm to
keep your interest.) I've been sort of shifting over, over the past couple years. But I'm still
working on my personal world most of the time.
micah replies to Kristal_Rose 
Same here. My life has flip flopped over the last 5 or 6 months 'cause of my conscious creation.
Things are working very well, but I have a lot to work on. (just the way I like it)

Sparky replies to ASexyBabe 
I'm not a bigot. I just don't agree with your sexual lifestyle that you seem to be so proud of.
ASexyBabe replies to Sparky 
You think you know so much? I am not Gay you dumbass!! If I were I would be proud of it though
and you should not knock people because of sexual choices if you don't like it just don't do it.
Kristal_Rose replies to ASexyBabe 
I don't think you were accused of that. You two are on opposite poles of the same emotional
frequency. You could be seeking things to agree upon instead, instead you choose to mirror the
worst.
{see comment below}
Kristal_Rose replies to Sparky 
{see comment above}
Technically, you, and strict literal followers of most faiths are bigots.
{bigot: an illiberal adherant of a creed, party, or opinion.}
But whethar that is is a good thing or bad is another question.
Sparky replies to ASexyBabe 
I know you're not gay, but you embrace it as if you were.
SueBee replies to ASexyBabe 
What's she talking about? You've never embraced me. 
Kristal_Rose replies to Sparky 
Many gay people and gay sympathisers live in an entirely different paradigm or worldview, complete
with a system of values and ethics as complex and deep as your own, but with much different
interpretations of social behavior and the roles of relationships, sex, marriage, etc. etc. To criticise
a detail of the paradigm would be like accusing an ancient maternal culture in which the children are
raised kibbutz style by the maternal side of the family tree, - of suffering from single parenting
because the brothers are there instead of the father.
Gay relationships would jeopardize the entire structure of your paradigm, but that's not the only
paradigm proven to work. Criticise the good and evil in other paradigms from within that paradigm.
If you don't understand the paradigm, then don't bother. I save birds that my cat's have
harrassed, and congratulate my cat's on their prowess. You can love these other people, respect
their beliefs, and maintain your own. To attack another faith indicates you fear the demise of your
own, which isn't faith. You are more yourself, the more you can welcome the rest of the world.
Kristal_Rose replies to SueBee 
But I do. XOX.
Kristal_Rose replies to SueBee 
I'd send a hug your way too, but I fear you would mistake it as an offence. Most unfortunate.

SueBee replies to Kristal_Rose 
You're so sweet! The world would be a better place if more people had your compassion for other
people.

Kristal_Rose replies to SueBee 1.5.14
I was just listening to the testimony of an ex-catholic who confessed her sins to Jesus, and became a christian. Usually I teach, but this time God told me to just listen. When ever I think of (feel) her, I feel like crying. In spite of what seemed like the presence of pure hearted intent, I think something's wrong with the picture. She used plenty of biblical references, and demonstrated (with our mutual freind) how that if i was God, Elisabeth was Jesus, and she the sinner, how she would have to go through Elisabeth to talk to me (which in fact was the case since I was channelling through Elisabeth how to handle the situation). I'm not sure if it was because she was secretly still in the spirit of confession, or because I felt sorry that her current belief system still separated her from God, or that she still carried the spirit of 'our sorrowful mother' that I felt sorrow. I suspect it would have been a bit too much for her to explain that I don't read all the bible because I've seen much of it in meditations, or experience it myself in modern personal events.

Sparky replies to Kristal_Rose 
Why would I want to be hugged by a transvestite?
Kristal_Rose replies to Sparky 
Because hugs from people of either gender are a good thing, and I just happen to be a bit of
both. Apparently I was correct thinking you'd take offense. I hug most of the people I
know, freinds neighbors, etc. I suppose you are missing out on that.
Sparky replies to Kristal_Rose 
oh, I doubt I would use the phrase "missing out" as such a bad thing
johnnyp 
I work around NUCLEAR REACTORS what do you think.
Kristal_Rose replies to Sparky 
It's your considered preference to keep people distant from you rather than share as much
warmth as possible? or is hugs just not your method? When possible, I like to have that
Christmas spirit one has at relative reunions with people I meen in stores and such. There
was a time (most of my life) that I was too fearful to do that, and merely admired those
that did. Eventually I figured out that (at least for me), nothing else mattered as much in
life. If I ever feel I'm losing my grip on life, it's the shared joy, and not the actions, sights,
or things, that I will regret not having made the most of.
Kristal_Rose replies to johnnyp 
Nuclear physics was a side effect of Einsteins efforts at using physics to demonstrate the
presence of God.

fuzz_a 
I think God and science are completely compatible. Right now I think there's a lot of things that
science just hasnt come to terms yet - a lot of things it can't "see" or detect that are nonetheless
very real. 
Kristal_Rose replies to fuzz_a 
I'm curious what spectrums you operate on.

Kristal_Rose replies to Brian 
If you were an omnipotent force in the vaccum of space, how would you entertain yourself for
eternity. What you do and think and experience.. that is God's purpose. Remembering entirely that
you're that omnipotent formless force would only bring the final curtain down. (but remembering
somewhat sure is fun.)
Brian replies to Kristal_Rose 
Kristal_Rose. Nice to make your acquaintance. Unfortunately, I am not an omnipotent force, which is
why my imagination about God's purpose is limited. Among the many ideas I have entertained over
the years was the one you put forth, or variations on it. But I am myopic and half way deaf. God has
no need of my meager input, whereas I am in great need of His. As I enjoy loving and instructing my
children, I believe, so might He. But I have ceased to worry or guess. I know He will one day share
His purpose with me. I'll bet it isn't anything like I have imagined.
Brian replies to Kristal_Rose 
Kristal_Rose. Nice to make your acquaintance. Unfortunately, I am not an omnipotent force, which is
why my imagination about God's purpose is limited. Among the many ideas I have entertained over
the years was the one you put forth, or variations on it. Kurt Vonnegut suggested we are the eyes
and ears of God. But I am myopic and half way deaf. God has no need of my meager input, whereas I
am in great need of His. As I enjoy loving and instructing my children, I believe, so might He. But I
have ceased to worry or guess. I know He will one day share His purpose with me. I'll bet it isn't
anything like I have imagined.
Kristal_Rose replies to Brian 
A forgetfully ignorant omnipotent force. Think of every surreal, romantic, sci-fi, you've ever seen
and multiply them all together. Even if it weren't for the reality altering stuff, just knowing that
God is in all of it, and talks to you, can make a profound change in your life.
I was always find it frustrating or sad when people think they have to wait till they die to know God.
When you'll see it, you'll wonder how you could have ever missed it; much like a person who always
wondered about night and day without realizing the world turns.
Brian replies to Kristal_Rose 
Ahhh, but I didn't say I didn't know God. He is very active in my life. 
I said don't know what "God's purpose" is. He has not shared that with me...yet. So, I adopt a
Saul/Paul stance: "Lord, what will you have me do?"
In the meantime, I am having an enjoyable exchange with you.
Kristal_Rose replies to Brian 
Oh, well that's great. I arrived at that with contemplation of what I experiencedand speculation on
what I would do differently if I were God (nothing); as far as a word to back that up, whenever I
say "My life and world is all for you God", the word returned is "No, it's all for you." When I act on
the notion that my life is to serve others, the logos of those around me describes the policy as a
kind misunderstanding.
Brian replies to Kristal_Rose 
I'm sorry. I didn't understanding your phrase: "...the logos of those around me describes the policy
as a kind misunderstanding." Would you please explain?
There are so many forms of the logos. My basic is having God manifest as all the bird chirps and radios and peoples voices around me, speaking in relation to my inner dialogue. On a lower level, only catchable as a metaphoric reflection of my thoughts, or an agreed upon set of signs and omens that attention to mistakes I might make and support other decisions. At a higher level it comes in crystal clear, talking to the source as crisply, even vocally with a person, as if it were a conversation with your teacher. One form the logos can take is representing the people who's mouths the word travels through, although still in conversation with the silent dialogue of your mind (actually you can speak vocally too, if you have the mind for operating on simultaneous levels, in which your mundane words also become part of the logos (in fact its even possible to speak vocally solely on a logos level, though the people will find it also has a mundane level of interpretation in synch with their separate interpersonal conceptions [in other words, some people you think are speaking with you are on another plane entirely; you're discussing bottling sodas, they're discussing the transmigration of the soul using your words on a metaphoric level {the good teacher will use language that means the same thing on different levels so the student will hear the same thing regardless of what plane they're on}])). There are many other channeling variants as well, and the consciousness is free to free itself from paying attention to vocalities, and the multi-tiered language perception and delusion of creation by ego entirely. There can also of course be non-vocal words communicated in all these structural realms as well. Other vastly different forms of the logos pertain to manifestation and dissolution.
When I was in the state of hearing peoples souls through their words, and in the midst of helping someone physically, and feeling that that seemed a natural thing for me to generally occupy myself with the words I heard could be paraphrased as "She thinks she belongs to everyone, which has been sweet for the rest of us, but she'll figure out otherwise soon enough." On the mundane level of reality, they were speaking not about me, but rather a toddler at the beach who was making friends with everyone that passed by, as apparently were her parents.
Did this page help explain that half a sentence?
As to what that really meant, I can't quite say. I operate as though I exist to serve society. God may have plans as of yet unrevealed for me (like you said of you too).

Kristal_Rose replies to Brian 
btw - Yes, it's wonderful to have come across you too.
So what ways do you know God? 
Brian replies to Kristal_Rose 
Kristal_Rose, with all due respect, do you always speak in run on sentences? Your discussion is hard
enough to understand in bits and bites. Recommended reading: Strunk and White's Principles of
English.

What you propose is the same stuff they taught in Communications Class in the 1970's. Then they
used intersecting circles to describe communications interfaces, and "body language" to describe
non-verbal communications. 

Same old wine in a brand new bottle. And without all the mystical references. Just humans talking
to each other straightforwardly.

As for knowing God: I read the Bible daily and receive His word. Interestingly, there is really
nothing mystical or obscure about God's word. Being obedient to it is the hard part.

So, we are back to "what is God's purpose", which shall always be beyond human comprehension
owing to a lack of intersecting circles of communication, or "different forms of the logos pertain to
manifestation and dissolution".

Wow, someone I can have a serious discussion with.
Does 'Strunk and White's' give advice on communicating fractalling treebranch parallel associations, through a linear language?
I doubt the non-verbal communications they reffered to were linguistic or non-verbal voices in your head, either direct from God or other spirits, or as interpersonal telepathy. NLP (Neural Linguistic Programming) is not at all what I meant, though certainly it is yet another facet of the Logos.

I'd like to think you mean that the transubstatiation has transcended to a point that it is understood to be implicitly manifest as mundane level conversation. Such conversation I also find differs in significance depending on the degree that you accept grace.

If you take the printed Bible to be the Word, then it is not a living Word except to the degree that: you are in-synch to come upon passages that pertain to that day's personal concerns; read with an (mystical) interpretation pertaining to the moment; or believe that the Word is alive in the fashion that nothing has changed in two millenia - that you are a generic person undergoing the exact same circumstances & perceptions as any man has gone through everyday for two millenia.

The word has suggested I quit smoking cigarettes since I met it a dozen years ago. Listening to the word has been easier even when it asks me to defy what I believe. An example would be when the word told me to skip a a very important class and visit my boss; It turned out that he just had money owed to me for a month which I desperately needed, and at the next class I discovered that the prior one had been cancelled anyhow. I followed the word in that matter for years, although now I am more likely to 'decide' that the boss got the money and class will be cancelled. Understanding that leads to the next level of concern..

The manifestation and dissolution of matter is also within a human's scope of those intersecting circles. I nearly pace the floor working (at times with others) on whethar we should pray into mans future the following options: space-exploration, agricultural sustenance, or a dissolution that would lead to VR form of matter until we collectively became a single matter-consciousness that might choose again to manifest as per the creation story, becoming ignorant of it's own nature so that the play might be appreciated, knowing it has eternity to recompile itself as various universes, occasionally recalling it's existence as God by probability alone. My experience makes it difficult to take the 'human' story to seriously.

Your set theory would be great for mapping the multiple-synchronistic-existentialism of a single multi-faceted unity. I might map it as God is a sphere. We are intersecting circles on that sphere's surface with eyes that see our neighbors, or through to all the sphere.

So, how old is your kid?

Run on sentences are best at representing the (water consciousness) fluidity of my thought. If it were possible, most of the sentences would in fact even be superimposed. The whole conversation usually comes to me at once, and except when responding to linear comments, is seldom linear. I don't have much capacity for the notion of time. 20 minutes often goes by me as 4 hours, and 4 hours often goes by me as 20 minutes. Looking at calendars, I often find that a months work was done in three days, and nothing tangible occured on the other 27. One of the hundreds of projects I have in mind is to develop a 3D method of visible hyperlink writing. Nearly each of these words would have been hyperlinked, each, and the point made by the composite sentence, being only a minute pinnacle of the whole embodiment of knowledge. 20years ago I conceived of a word processor designed to shift color, font, size, texture, italicization, and many other variables to represent volume, mood, etc. Done right, the actual words would be a mere subsidiary of the communication which could be grasped in a single snapshot, not as linear progression.
I took to heart the teachings of my first college English professor who had to say "You know all the rules of grammer and punctuation, now break them as suits what you are conveying."

Brian replies to Kristal_Rose
I love it: "communicating fractalling treebranch parallel associations, through a linear
language"

I am a big reader of Chaos Theory, which usually goes over most people's heads. What is
fascinating to me is the identical mathematical formulas that cause "fractalization" appear in
natural and man-made systems. This to me is scary. There should be NO connection
between them at all.

I like way you use fractalizing parallel associations, which is another confirmation of the
Chaos Theory subsets themselves. That is to say: are our conversations going to follow the
identical fractal formulas as well? Are we pre-programmed to have this chat?

Have you had the chance to read anything about "String Theory"? Specifically, "The Elegant
Universe" by Dr. Brian Green?

Overlaying String Theory to Chaos Theory, even superficially, yields some incredible
potentials.

Which leads my bizarre mind to drag in The Bible and "The Word" (John 1:1-2) as you hinted
at in your third paragraph. 

Since "Strings" are one dimensional "elements", which "vibrate" at different "frequencies" to
yield both matter and energy, might not the four basic forces (electro-magnetic, weak, strong
and gravity) be the equivalent of "Let there be light". 

Now look who is "running on". (Blush)

Indeed: "Wow, someone I can have a serious discussion with."

Let me stop here, to catch my cyber breath, and also re-read your comments.

Feed back. I need feedback.

Kristal_Rose replies to Brian 1.5.29
Re: Let There Be Light ~~~
I skimmed a book on chaos theory and missed that it had more than a basic consequence.
It all has a single source of creation. Ancient jewish metaphysicians described it as fractal viral process which could be intercepted in a personal 'mind over matter' microcosm. Of course it is all connected. Hinduism teaches that the whole of creation exists in the smallest seed. If you want to see this physically, you would describe it as nanotechnology akin to the ben-ben stone, a crystal guarded by the phoenix that came like a shooting star to transform our world into forms. We aren't pr-programmed because only the moment of creation exists, in which we create history. 40 years ago, rocks were just rocks, 30 years ago some rocks had DNA and had been here since the dawn of creation. Einsteins theory of relativity is practically the unified field theory he was looking for. Instead of applying it to relativity, apply it to manifestation of the source by expressing c as it's components, then apply calculus limits to the source, it's edge, history, etc. You will find that the source can have no matter, but separtion from the source yields simultaneous concretions of all moments in time. The fictitious creation of time is responsible for the creation of matter. without the illusion of time, all points in space and matter co-exist as one point. The jewish kaballists, and even their contemporaries (like the unfortunate crowley) were aware of 11 string reality. Hebrew was originally 11 letters. If you want 1200 pages describing this in terms of Alice Bailey's (unnecessarily complicated and scattered) 'Treatise on Cosmic Fire' in which she explains living as those forces of physics. I myself reversed magnetic north in part of my living room. Then there's Heisenburgs particle-wave observor phenomenon - infinite potential realities, but the observor defines by choosing just one.

The easiest way to experience this is to conceive a loop coming out of the back of your head that heads through sky, back through physical manifestation, to your eyes, through what you believe to be a mind, and meeting out the back of your head. God is the creator of all - your physical world, and even your mind. This can be short-cutted to the simple experience "The eye creates".
Man is Mana. That final 'Aleph'(breath of god) not closing the circuit.

Taking a breather from metaphysics..
Proving Fermat's last theorm might entertain you. It only require the concepts of basic calculus, applied to calculus. Wiles got confused because he was trying to solve it linearly, not as a simultaneous continuum of infinite dimensions. As Fermat suggested, it can be done in a couple paragraphs. In case you're unfamiliar with the problem: prove that A^n + B^n = C^n in a right triangle can hold true only for n=0 and n=2.

Brian replies to Kristal_Rose
Okay, you've given me some references I am unfamiliar with. I have to do some research to
get up to speed. I have meetings the next few days, and back home Friday. It will be this
weekend before I can put it all together.
Have a nice weekend.

Kristal_Rose replies to Brian 1.5.29
I need to do an immense amount of purely mundane business anyhow. I look forward to later.

Do you think you will go to Heaven when you die? 1.5.05

Kristal_Rose 
[Other] Been there, done that.
And expect to return repeatedly in different forms.
They were what you'd call heaven on earth.
Kristal_Rose replies to Twistermime 
Los Angeles 

jkiehart 
Oh God I hope so, but I fear my adolescent mistake will banish me to hell forever.
Oh hell, I'll tell you all. I'm really afraid my abortion will mess everything up. Although I don't
regret it. I hope God can forgive me, but it's a mortal sin and I don't know if God forgives mortal
sins. Sorry, lapsed Catholic here.

Kristal_Rose replies to jkiehart 
I meant to post this last night but my connection went offline:
You can leave it all behind and start fresh. But you have to forgive yourself too. All your guilt for
things you did leave behind will continue to haunt you for eternity. Also, all that you do without
leaving behind will come back to you as karma. Learn from your mistakes. There is no reason to
continue living with guilt for something you would never do again however. Shame accomplishes
nothing noble. Everyone has a shot at heaven regardless of their past. Heaven is a place for the
pure of heart, of which 'not forgiving yourself' is not.
jkiehart replies to Kristal_Rose 
Thank you for your helpful words.
Show me a non-guilty Catholic and I'll show you a... uh... I've never been good at witty comparisons. 

Oscar 
I know I will
Maarten replies to Oscar 
No, you believe you will. 

Kristal_Rose replies to jkiehart 
People presumed I was a Catholic for my first 25 years because of my inclination for heavy guilt at
the time. As administration of a human behavior model goes (no comments on the spiritual faith at
this time), it leaves something to be desired. The sexual opression for instance backfires, and they
seem to be secretly obsessed with kinky harlequin romance novel stuff. It also seems to fall in the
category of religions that force an addiction by designing a lifestyle in which church is your only
outlet for great passion. I've photographed an apparition of Mary at a mountain shrine. The times
I've worshipped amongst that vibe were highly 'water' consciousness, full of tears, and slightly
reminiscient of sex in the dark. All the times I indulged in Catholocism, hell seemed to be right next
door in my life experience. They seem to come as a set.
One of my good friends gave away everything to become a catholic monk, and I suppose he was
inspirational for my doing the same as a yogi a few years later. I can tell he's never going to caught
up in the hell stuff. He gave me his experimental record collection (fripp & eno, ancient floydd,
etc.) his animation camera, a mini piano for our kids, and went to a south western U.S. monastary
fond of painting. He's probably a friar now. He knew a lot of occult stuff, and said the church
acknowledges all that, but puts it on the shelf as being of unimportance. I don't recall him ever
seeming to show signs of guilt though.

micah 
Heaven is a perspective. Knowledge changes perspective. The surpent named fate sends his
regards. What knowledge is there in death?
Kristal_Rose replies to micah 
Sur-pent. That's one I hadn't heard.
That's quite a wheel you spun there.. Knowledge gets you in or out of Heaven. True enough. Critical thinking won't though. Your on a roll tonight.

Oscar replies to Maarten 
nice try. I know I will.
ASexyBabe replies to Oscar 
With the hateful things I see you say about really nice people I think you should think again.
Oscar replies to ASexyBabe 
they have nothing to do with my eternal destiny
ASexyBabe replies to Oscar 
I don't think you get it. Your actions control that and... oh nevermind I think you are too dense to get it
Oscar replies to ASexyBabe 
Do you put any thought into your comments or do they just tumble out of you head all mumbo
jumboed?

Kristal_Rose replies to Oscar 1.5.10
They don't eh? Perhaps you can do me a favor and show me scripture favoring that ethic to help me understand your position.
If you're willing to change your handle, I might recommend another more fun experiment. Try doing it again as as means to explore other personality types, try out insipid, super analytical, desperate, giving. See which ones are fun to wear and which make your life better. I've noticed there's a pearl within you that is activated when someone offers an expression of joy which exactly matches your beliefs and interests. Try doing the doing the same for others. Everyone is different, but that's no obstacle to finding the same pearl in everyone else. Transcend the subject matter and make the universal heart in yourself come alive around you. If you treat this earth a testing ground for people worthy of heaven, you will find that there is no need to wait for some heaven elsewhere. God has infinite capacity in time, space, and matter to make any arrangements. But consider that if God plopped you and everyone here at SC on a cloud with some harps, that your lot would probably be as bad as it is now, if not worse.

supplicant replies to Oscar 
nice try. I know I will.
So you presume to know the will of God then?
Oscar replies to supplicant 
whether or not I go to heaven when I die is not decided by a decision God makes. It is decided by my repentance of sins and acceptance of God's salvation.
Kristal_Rose replies to Oscar 
Hmm.. Is that your final answer?
Gee, I guess it's good to know your decision counts more than Gods.
natsim 
If Heaven is what I think of it as, then most of us will be there. We will all live on in the memory of God.... 
it's too complicated to explain where I'm coming from on this one.
natsim replies to Oscar 
Errr... Oscar... ever read the story about the sheep and the goats?
Matthew 25:31-46
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the
throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people
one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the
sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right
hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from
the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you
gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you
gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited
me.'Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave
you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a
stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw
you sick or in prison and visited you?' And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just
as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.'
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire
prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you have me no food, I was
thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you
gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.' Then they will answer and
say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison,
and not minister to your needs?' He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not
do for one of the least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal
punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

My interpretation of this is that God does make a decision about who is welcome in the
Kingdom, and those that are welcome are the ones that serve the poor. 

What's your interpretation?
Oscar replies to natsim 
I agree that God makes the decision, but the decision He made is that whoever will accept
His gift of salvation and believe on Him, then they are made worthy to enter heaven. Their
sins are covered and are no longer visible to the Father. God's decision was made and due to
man's free will, we can choose to accept or decline the offer.
Maarten replies to Oscar 
I just heard god doesn't want any more assholes in his kingdom of suffering and pain.
Sorry...
natsim replies to Oscar 
But what do you think of the story? Does it have any meaning for you? To me it suggests that
there is a lot more than mere acceptance and belief in God. It also suggests that our sins
are visible and we will be judged on them regardless of how strong our belief is. Why do you
think Jesus told this story? (I'm not trying to trick you or anything, I just want to know
where this fits in for you )
Kristal_Rose replies to natsim
Thank you so much. ..exactly what was appropriate here.
Oscar replies to natsim 
To me it shows that for those of us who are accepted into Heaven, we will be judged
according to what we did with what God gave to us. Our works will then be judged and we
will have to account for our actions, thoughts, words, etc. I think He told the story to show
us that even though our sins are forgiven, He still expects us to live for Him. We will be
accountable for the times that what did didn't glorify God. We will also be given rewards
for the times when we did. The parable isn't talking about people being kicked out of
Heaven. It is talking about people being unable to be part of the Bride of Christ. That is why
they are thrown into darkness, not Hell. In Heaven, there is no light except Jesus.
Anywhere that Jesus is not, there will be darkness. Therefore, those put in darkness will be
in Heaven, but they will not be in the wedding supper. That's where the weeping and
gnashing of teeth comes in. Wouldn't you be a bit disheartened if even though you made it to
Heaven, you weren't allowed to commune with the One that brought you there?
I hope that makes sense...
Oscar replies to Maarten 
I guess you're screwed then
natsim replies to Oscar 
Thanks... it does make sense. Let me check that I'm understanding you. Even though our sins
are forgiven and can be confident of going to Heaven, you get a better seat at the table if
you "do the right thing", which seems to be to look after those who are sick, poor, hungry, in
prison. If you believe, but don't act on your belief, then you get to Heaven, but it's not so
great. Hmmm.... is that where you're coming from?

Kristal_Rose replies to Oscar 
I sure commend Natsim on his patience.
I think the point being made (certainly the one I wished to make) is that one glorifies God by glorifying their neighbors. I think you are being needlessly defensive about the 'geting into heaven' part of the sermon, when no offense (or even indication) was probably intended.
For what it's worth, in my personal experience, I discovered that no good karma comes from doing good actions solely out of duty, (or even enmity if you're passive-agressive), but rather they should be done with love, whethar you see god or a person before you.
Another aside here; I recall one of my ministers saying "You can't confess your sins, then go on sinning."
I believe that the purpose of preparing or behavior for heaven is actually to make this world a heaven, after all, if we were all plucked from this earth to some place with clouds and harps, what would really be different? .. No weapons or flowers, just a bunch of people free to glorify or scream at each other.
I don't want to put you on the defensive, I'm just hoping I can offer some food for contemplation that might get you closer to understanding God's plan for a lovely existence, because it doesn't seem to me that your all that happy with what you've figured out so far. Personally, Christianity nearly drove me to suicide, and I am thankful to have run into people that pulled me out of my misunderstandings, and eventually running into Christians that proved that that system could work and was similar to what I found working.
I see now that I've been repeating myself in these comments.

Oscar replies to natsim 
basically, that is what I am saying. Anything you do after you are saved is what you will be
judged for. I don't like the way "a better seat at the table" sounds, but it's about the best
description I've heard so far.

Kristal_Rose replies to Oscar 
I find as the years progress, that the more effort I put into service, the more opportunities
are provided to me. For instance, I did a lot of work writing compromises and strategies to
help more housing assistance clients on existing funds, and was then nominated to be a
representative. I stumble into movie sets and parade centers and all sorts of things you
could call "a better seat at the table", and all it took was being accepting of Gods grace. It
started with surrendering my entire being to God, then finding that what God wanted me to
do was be myself, complete with my quirks and opinions, although I do get nudges and
reminders frequently about the best course to take, or at least karmic feedback to see if
my actions were of value.

natsim replies to Kristal_Rose
I like what you've said here... and that's one of the thing that worries me when we
end up talking about some sort of "Heavenly heirachy"! You know, good seats and
bad seats... I think God's grace is bigger than that, and that good actions should
stem from deep faith rather than a sense of duty.

Kristal_Rose replies to natsim
Unquestionably. There was a time I tried to simply follow the rules of good christian conduct, and it was the darkest period of my life. At this point though, since I use my own intellectual judgement as much as heart driven intuition or hearing the logos, I try to put myself in a position to best serve with my skills, since I have to put myself in some position anyway, and manage to have similar traumas and delights whethar I'm shopping or administrating utopian plans.
I'm not sure what you mean worries you. At the surface interpretation, I see gods grace equally available to anyone, yet socially it seems to be sporadically made apparent to people.
On a higher interpretation, I am involved with a group that believes in participation with a "Heavenly heirachy". It's objectives are to design the next age of consciousness. Like so many opportunities God has let me in on, I don't get to find out whethar I've made the right move until after I've become involved. I've felt for years that I was part of an esoteric oligarchy, where we roughly knew through our connection to the logos what to pray into being, but to have us convene, state our intent in words, and presume grand responsibility, rather than little tidbits like science and ecology, but the actual consciousness of others, makes me grit my teeth a bit. Admittedly, I have prayed a change of consciousness into a select few with blessed results, but if it weren't for the fact that global integration with God's will was the intent, I'd be inclined to think this was like a consortium of angels taking a path like lucifers. Also, I can't help but speculate that an eternity of society divorced from God's will, is exactly what God wants. Einstein didn't regret his choices until afterwards. and if it weren't for his first step of learning how to disassemble matter, the coming technology of recreating it wouldn't be possible.
It is intent of the heart, not the mind that, that gets one a better seat. ..and, it's a catch 22; if your goal is a better seat, your work is unrewarded. In your vocabulary "Let he wishing to be first into the kingdom be last."

Kristal_Rose replies to natsim
Re: motives for finding a church.
I did the nichiren buddhism thing for two reasons: to explore what they had different, and to pass on values and comparative metaphysics. I found that they were able to chant so effectively because in fact they had surrendered to a sort of beehive of collective ancestral spirit which took over while the higher mind was free to mingle with others present. People were impressed when I illustrated their own teachings with personal experiences, and were able to compare them with metaphysics from western and hindu traditions. However staff emailed me later saying never to mention other faiths again. That and the fact that I saw they were an unhappy lot trying to buy good karma for selfish ends, and might be heading exclusively for the void, and my contact there was always calling me the moment I fell asleep or entered the bath (when the mind is susceptable), made me feel I was trying to rehabilitate the Borg collective, in spite of good experiences in which I spoke through others. A repeat of the I-ching lesson 17, SUI wasn't really helpful {following brings complete success - the ruler can become the sage, the sage can uncreate the world, but the ruler brings it back}. Whoa, OK, I suddenly see my karma there. I spoke through all of them: they all spoke through me. Interesting.
The very church I am in now, I was once going to infiltrate because they were the prayer force behind horrendous new technologies. Now it appears that their goal is to not let these technologies evolve to destroy yet another age. They speak my language, and collectively are working on the same issues as me, so that is why I hang out with them.
btw - I hope you realize I admire the work you do.